M5 CHR Updates

M5 CHR Updates

The information below is in addition to my main CHR review. Make sure you read that one first to get the details of my impressions of the bike. This page documents the upgrades and changes I have made since that review was written.

Updates for February 2019

Fork

As I noted in my main review, the front disc fork that came with the CHR frameset was far too big. You could just about fit a knobbly mountain bike tyre in there. This had two consequences: 1) the front of the bike was raised about 3 cm higher than it should be, greatly affecting forward vision on the most laid back seat position, and 2) The fork was so wide it was impossible to run a straight chain line from the chainrings to the idlers under the seat, because the fork legs got in the way. This meant the chain had to bend round the fork using a chain tube which is clearly not optimal.

Condor Pioggia Carbon Disk Fork

Nice new shiny fork

How much power does a slightly bent chainline rob you of? To be honest, I think it is almost negligible. There is some friction in the chain tube, but it isn’t a huge deal. However, if weight weenies think they can improve performance by saving a few grams with the use of titanium bolts (which makes no measurable difference whatsoever), then surely this is at least something measurable worth doing. Even if it saves 2 watts, that’s measurable and might constitute around 20 seconds over a steady 1 hour for me. Over the course of a hilly sportive that might be anything between 30 seconds to a minute faster, so possibly worth doing if you’re concerned about being as fast as possible (which I am occasionally, although I have no illusions as to the previous ‘less than optimal’ history and current condition of my ageing and slightly vintage motor).

In any case, I wanted the seat as flat as possible and I needed to lower the front of the bike, so I replaced the front fork with something more practical. Dieselgeezer on BROL recommended a Condor Pioggia carbon disc fork which was an excellent recommendation. As you can see, it has a much better fit. This fork lowers the front of the bike by around 3 cm, meaning that forward vision is greatly improved. I had tried the lowest seat pillar on the previous fork, and I hit 3 potholes in under 5 minutes because I literally couldn’t see where I was going. Very dangerous. With the new fork, vision is about the same as it was previously on the middle seat pillar, which means not too bad. It’s similar to the Fuego with the open cockpit bars in terms of visibility and is more than good enough for me, providing you are more careful when you have to pick your way through road debris at slow speed.

Chain line

The Pioggia fork is much narrower too, which means that my chain line is now almost perfectly straight – hurrah! There is a slight rubbing between the chain tube and the fork which I need to sort before it gets any worse, it’s already slightly marked the finish on the new fork.

I have tinkered with the chain line endlessly (as seems to be the norm with many CHR owners online), trying to get it as friction free and noiseless as possible. I briefly tried an over/under setup with no chain tube, but there was just enough fork obstructing the chain occasionally that it wasn’t going to work, even with the Pioggia, so I’ve gone back to the raised return chain. There was also still a lot of chain / wheel interference in this configuration, and that’s one thing I just don’t want to have to think about. The chain line is pretty good now, and I reduced the noise by spacing the idlers under the seat a bit better.

Seat

I now have the seat in the lowest position (I ordered the frameset with both the small and medium pillars). I like this position more than the medium pillar. I find very reclined positions much more comfortable on the glutes, and it more or less removes the possibility of recumbutt for me. Your weight is more spread out along your back, so less pressure on all contact points. I do not suffer any loss of power at this angle – I don’t intentionally brace against the seat back, even when putting out threshold intensity – and there’s more space in the cockpit between your torso and the bars. An all round win situation!

Lowered seat

Definitely a bike worthy of Batman

The only downside is the reduced visibility which I sorted with a more compact fork. Putting on a smaller fork has meant the recline of the seat is also a bit less as the front of the bike drops by 3 cm, so it’s still fairly close to the middle pillar setting on the old fork, a little more reclined but nothing outrageous. The whole front of the bike is now lower and more compact. Theoretically if I was at the same recline as before but with a slightly more compact vertical profile, I should be slightly more aero. My rides to date haven’t really suggested any improvement, although I have Durano tyres on just now so it’s hard to tell.

Mirrors

I have struggled with mirrors on this bike. The bars are so small there’s not a lot of real estate. I originally ran a B&M Cyclestar mirror which David at LBB added on for free. This is an excellent choice as it puts the mirror quite far out to the side giving great rearward visibility. However I didn’t like the aesthetic so I took it off. I tried helmet mirrors too – not too bad, but a bit of eye contortion required and lets face it, you look a bit daft with a big bit of plastic sticking out of your head. Eventually I went back to the tried and tested Zefal Spys which I have on all my other bikes. They are so small and lightweight, you can more or less hide them behind the bars for negligible aero penalty. The only thing is the bars are so narrow that you don’t get such good rearward visibiity. To see behind you requires you to turn the bike slightly to the side as you ride otherwise all you see is your shoulder and neck. Nothing I’ve tried really appeals to me, so this is something I need to play with further. I’ll probably go back to the Cyclestar in the meantime.

Garmin

Garmin mount

‘In yer face’ Garmin mount

I originally had my Garmin wrapped round the bars with the rubber band mount, but this sticks up into the wind a bit, so I put the ‘out front’ mount on, but I point it backwards and tilt it slightly downwards. So it’s more of a ‘in your face’ mount when lying back on the seat. This position puts the Garmin quite close to my face and hides it out the wind completely, at the expense of having slightly less space to sit up in when negotiating things at low speed. Speaking of Garmins, the battery in mine is pretty much dead. It barely lasts 2 hours now, even with everything non-essential turned off. It’s lasted 3 years of heavy use which isn’t too bad. It has a cracked screen, and some of the electrics are a bit dodgy as the charging socket cover fell off some time back and I sometimes forget to put a bit of tape over it when it’s raining. I think it’s going to be relegated to ’emergency backup’ status very soon.

Conclusion

The bike now feels pretty much dialed in. I’m just waiting on the Angletech Aeropod Lowracer seat bag to arrive. In the meantime I will continue to use the Fastback Double Century bags which work great, but perhaps catch the wind a little.

Riding the M5 with all the modifications hasn’t been too much of a change. The whole bike is slightly lower and more compact and the line of sight is slightly different, but it all seems OK so far. Unfortunately the roads are still covered in salt and other assorted mess so I’m not taking the M5 out much just now. I’ve had one decent blast round the Innerleithen loop on it and it was all working very nicely. The best purchase so far has definitely been the Sram R2C bar end shifters. I just absolutely love them. I’ll update more once I’ve had some proper time on the bike and put the faster tyres back on. I’m hoping for a small speed increase to justify the expense of the new fork…..

Updates for March 2019

Tiller (again)

I’m going round in circles. I got the bike last summer with the fixed tiller, then put the Nazca lifting tiller on quite soon after. Over the winter I decided to put the fixed tiller back on, but I’ve now decided that this isn’t worth the extra hassle, so I’m putting the Nazca one back on again ๐Ÿ™‚ For the sake of saving at most 2 or 3 hundred grams in weight and perhaps a tiny aero improvement due to a slightly lower profile, I don’t think the fixed tiller gives any added benefit.

Nazca tiller - ride position

Lifting tiller in ride position

On the other hand it adds significant handling issues when doing things such as balancing at low speed, and most significantly, seeing what is coming at a junction. When you can’t sit up at a visibility-impaired junction, it’s hard to tell if anyone’s coming and you end up unclipping, putting a foot down and then checking which is laborious and kludgy.

I’ve resprayed the Nazca tiller black to fit in with the overall M5 aesthetic and it’s turned out pretty nice. I used the first piece of the Nazca stem (the bit that attaches to the base, and then the second piece of the M5 stem and the M5 bars. 

With the tiller lifted you can sit up and edge forward at really low speed without unclipping and oftentimes you can move off without needing to put a foot down. Balance is so much improved when you can sit right up, and you can see round a junction earlier to make the decision on whether or not to go or stop.

Nazca Tiller - lifted position

Lifting tiller all the way up

Can I ride with the fixed tiller? Yes. Could I get used to it? I’m pretty sure I could. But I don’t see the point in deliberately making a bike harder to ride for no perceived advantage. Maybe if I was a high powered super athlete then the incremental improvements that the fixed tiller may offer in terms of rigidity and aero improvement would become important, but for plain old me, it’s just not worth the bother. 


13 Comments

jasonbrudvik Posted on9:57 am - Mar 1, 2019

Hey there! I just stumbled across your blog, I’m also a somewhat recent newcomer to riding an M5.

I’ve had an M5 M-Racer for almost 2 years now, and have tinkered with the setup endlessly, but it’s just about at the point where I may let it be for a while.
Here’s a photo from the other day, I hope you can view it:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/wmyDeB1pSzRYQZt8A

The brake cables go through the handle bars and tiller (had to drill some holes for that), and exit through the bottom of the tiller as you can sorta see in the photo above. Here’s a very poor quality, out of focus photo of the cockpit:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/63sBka1De5AMnezN8
I’m running a 1×11 drive train, and it’s difficult to see, but there’s a mountain bike shifter on the handle bars, rotated 90 degrees to the usual way they are mounted. Works nice.

I also have a fork that I bought from ebay – a little scary, but after ~2000 km it’s still in one piece, so it seems pretty good. The one I got was much narrower than what came with the M5 originally, and my chainline is now perfectly straight. I use an over-under idler and no chain tubes. Here’s a link to the fork:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/321694957331?ul_noapp=true
The fork was recommended by someone on some random Bachetta forum, so I figured I’d give it a shot.

And if it’s of interest, I use a mirror that attaches to my wrist from a company called RearViz. Here’s another poor quality photo:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/HxX3Uai1HmEKzStCA

I highly recommend the tailbox, it’s really nice.

#! Jason

    recumbentcyclistuk Posted on10:23 pm - Mar 1, 2019

    Thanks for the comments Jason – thatโ€™s a lovely looking bike. How do you find the RearViz in use? Iโ€™m still looking for a mirror solution that Iโ€™m happy with. Is there any issue with the angle you need to look at to look at your wrists or moving your hands around changing the view?

Sascha from Germany Posted on10:58 am - Mar 9, 2019

Thanks for the very informative blog posts about your CHR build. My primary interest is in getting a suitable disc fork, so the Condor Pioggia is a very welcome recommendation. As you are running a very similar chain routing than mine, I’m confident that the Pioggia will fit, so I just ordered one.

I’m currently using the stock rim brake fork, no chain tubes, but the right fork leg is protected by velcro tape. The fork came like this from M5 and it works well. The velcro dampens any noise when the chain swings against the fork leg.

    recumbentcyclistuk Posted on4:15 pm - Mar 9, 2019

    Hi Sascha, the Pioggia is working out great for me – it should do for you too!

    Cheers
    David

Ed B Posted on1:02 pm - Apr 15, 2019

Hi….fellow M5 CHR rider here. A couple ideas to consider. You could drop the front end and improve visibility by cutting off some of the lower headtube, Bram did this for me. I ride with the lowest mount with reasonable visibility. I put my Garmin on the “seat tube” just below the holes where the cables fit thru the frame. I epoxy a mount there. Works for me using the factory fixed tiller. Mirrors are a pain and I have tried them all. I ended up mounting a B & M 901/3 to the left brake lever. I pulled out the metal extension bit and connected the round mirror directly to the mount, which is connected to the brake lever. A little kludgey but it was the best solution I could find with a good quality glass mirror. With the brake lever slightly twisted upwards, I get pretty much full rear visibility. (would be right brake for you, of course). For routine training rides, I also use a helmet with the EVT safety mirror attached. I wish I had a front disc brake, your setup looks sweet……improving my braking would be nice!

    recumbentcyclistuk Posted on1:50 pm - Apr 15, 2019

    Thanks Ed. The Pioggia fork makes the visibility pretty decent without the need to cut anything off the frame. I also tried the Garmin where you’ve got yours and it worked pretty good, but I like having it closer to my face so I can fiddle with it in comfort! ๐Ÿ™‚ Now that I’ve put the lifting tiller back on there’s no problem with it getting in the way any more.

    I bought a RearViz mirror as recommended by Jason above, and that’s working out pretty good. They don’t sell them in the UK but I found one on Ebay second hand which I snapped up. The bars are definitely a pain for mirrors as you say!

    The front disc brake makes a huge difference – my back brake isn’t that great either ๐Ÿ™

Sascha Posted on9:08 pm - Apr 24, 2019

Just want to confirm, that the Pioggia actually works very well for me! It adds a little weight compared to the M5 stock fork, but it’s totally worth it. Perfect chain line for my 2×11 setup.

Have ridden it a few hundred kilometers over a wide variety of road surfaces without any issues so far. My daily commute includes a long stretch of bumpy, potholed asphalt, which proves the trustworthiness of this fork.

Thanks again for this great recommendation!

    recumbentcyclistuk Posted on7:17 am - Apr 25, 2019

    That’s great Sascha – thanks to dieselgeezer on BROL for the recommendation! I have a similar experience to you, although for me the fork is slightly lighter than the one that came with the M5, which was a lot bigger and wider. It’s working out well for me too.

Jason Brudvik Posted on8:22 am - May 8, 2019

Any guess as to the amount of rake on that fork?
And it looks like the steerer tube is aluminum – is it?
Still happy with the fork? I’m thinking of getting one.

Thanks,
#! Jason

    recumbentcyclistuk Posted on8:57 am - May 8, 2019

    Hi Jason,

    I’m not sure on the rake – it appears to be slightly more raked than the original fork I had. I haven’t noticed any real handling changes with either the greater rake or lower front end. Any changes are too small to worry about.

    Yes the steerer is aluminium – https://www.condorcycles.com/products/pioggia-disc-fork

    I am very happy with the fork. I weighed it prior to installation and with the steerer tube cut to size it was very slightly lighter than the original fork. It’s not super lightweight but neither was the original. It’s been over enough bumps and potholes that I am convinced it is a decent build quality and it serves the main purpose I needed – lowering the front of the bike enough to get the seat onto the lowest setting.

    I can’t think of anything negative to warn you of – it seems decent quality.

      Jason Brudvik Posted on10:34 am - May 8, 2019

      Great, thanks for the info! I think I’ll get one then.
      #! Jason

Jason Brudvik Posted on8:45 am - May 10, 2019

Hey, so I ordered that fork, it was shipped to me here in southern Sweden in less than 24 hours! I installed it last night, took it for a test ride this morning, and it works perfectly! Thanks for the tip ๐Ÿ™‚
#! Jason

    recumbentcyclistuk Posted on10:29 am - May 10, 2019

    Fantastic Jason, thatโ€™s three of us with this fork now!

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